As some of you probably already know, I'm pretty much addicted to the climbing website
http://www.8a.nu/. It combines two of my favourite things; climbing and numbers. I like how it attempts quantify climbing by attaching a score to the routes you've climbed. It does a fairly good job I think, there are some things I would change like making trad climbs count more, not weighing onsighting quite so highly in routes, and eliminating onsighting all together from boulders. But despite this I think its a cool way of charting progress over time, and also making comparisons with friends. 8a.nu gets a lot of criticism for trying to rank climbers on a national and global scale, which is never going to be accurate since not all climbers are registered on 8a.nu, although it is getting more and more popular by the day. One of my goals for 2008 was to finish the year in ranked in the top 50 combined, but that didn't happen partially because I didn't improve my bouldering as much as I wanted, a lot of good new climbers joined, and already registered climbers like me improved their level. I think I finished the year in 86th, 1 spot ahead of Micah! As fun as this is to compare with other climbers I know its not really accurate. What I really like about the site (apart from their awesome database of crags and climbs) is being able to see the routes I've logged in the past. Now that I've had my scorecard for a few years its really cool to see my progress over time. Recently I retroactively added some routes and boulders to my scorecard (that I kept record of separately) from 2002 and 2003, before I started my scorecard so that I'd have a more representative trend over time graph.
Below are my trends for routes and bouldering.
ROUTES
I like how it shows a gradual constant improvement each year. This level of improvement is not really sustainable though. For example if I were to improve at the same rate I did from 2007 to 2008 withing three years I would be ranked above Adam Ondra #1 in the world. What I hope is that that I'm still be able to improve a little bit more in the next few years and maybe level out above the 10,000 level and stay around that level for a long long time. The reason I have the same points today as I did in 2008 is that I haven't logged any climbs in 2009 yet that would rank in my top 10, and none of my 2008 top-10 climbs have expired yet.
BOULDERS
The bouldering trend tells a much more interesting story I think. I shows a lot more variation from year to year, that I think reflect changes in my personal circumstances. For example my score goes way up in 2003, this was the year I started Uni at Stirling and had a lot more access to bouldering spots, Wolfcrag was walking distance and Dumbarton not too far away. Then in 2006 my score actually dips a bit. This was the year I moved to the US and climbed a lot more sport routes. I didn't have any local bouldering areas anymore and only got out bouldering 5 days at Squamish after I arrived at the US that year according to my scorecard. Then the following year we discovered Leavenworth bouldering, I spent a lot more time up at Squamish over the summer and made a trip down to Bishop and my score goes way up.
I think I've still got a lot of room for improvement when it comes to bouldering, but right now I would say I'm more excited for route climbing. I think if I keep trying to improve in bouldering in a few years I could definitely break the 8000 point barrier and maybe even 9000 points, but it really depends on personal circumstances where I live, how much time I have for climbing etc. Having a scorecard definitely feeds my excitement for climbing and improvement, but sometimes I do have to question whether I'm climbing for the fun of climbing, or just climbing for points?
The bouldering trend tells a much more interesting story I think. I shows a lot more variation from year to year, that I think reflect changes in my personal circumstances. For example my score goes way up in 2003, this was the year I started Uni at Stirling and had a lot more access to bouldering spots, Wolfcrag was walking distance and Dumbarton not too far away. Then in 2006 my score actually dips a bit. This was the year I moved to the US and climbed a lot more sport routes. I didn't have any local bouldering areas anymore and only got out bouldering 5 days at Squamish after I arrived at the US that year according to my scorecard. Then the following year we discovered Leavenworth bouldering, I spent a lot more time up at Squamish over the summer and made a trip down to Bishop and my score goes way up.
7 comments:
Nice post Dom. I like your insights about the trends and graphs and how they contribute to your excitement about improving each year. The whole assigning points to climbs debate is a slippery slope indeed, but my philosophy is that points become a negative influence on your climbing when they start to dictate what you climb and the level of effort that you continually climb at all the time. There are definitely routes out there that are just not worth climbing (i.e. crappy rock, poor movement, uninspiring setting etc.)but if there is a number attached to it and a point valuation system that influences your decisions about climbing a route/boulder that you normally wouldn't give the time of day to but you end up climbing it just for the points or for the fact that it may help contribute to your score/ranking on 8a, then that is certainly one way that points can start to devalue the beauty and intricacy of truly inspired climbing. Another thing that bugs me about the 'top ten' concept on 8a is that after you have sent your top ten hardest routes for the year, and there is still quite a bit of the year left you can start to become sluggish in your approach towards climbing for the remainder of that year instead of trying harder and harder routes. Waiting for the next year to roll around before you can climb anything at or above your level just to keep that trend going. In my experience I want to be psyched all the time, not just when I have a fresh top ten routes/boulders to climb for the year. Anyway, enough about my hang ups. I still enjoy participating in 8a and am glad that you turned me on to it. Maybe we can continue this discussion over a pint in the near future.
GOod stuff Dom. I definitely agree with what you would ammend about 8a.nu (re: bouldering Onsights, Trad Scores)...I know the points we earn on 8a.nu are enticing, but we all know the REALNESS of climbing...legit experience. I disagree with Micah...I'm just as sIked to combat a v6 or 5.11+ even if it doesn't affect my scorecard...case in point, your rampage on "Rough Cut" recently...props again, I remember that joint in the not-too-distant past (it was a proud send for me...my first "lld").
I know we all have our differing opinions concerning Joe Kinder, but you gotta check out his latest post on his blog...it's got some HILARIOUS faces of celebrity climbers (pics I've never seen):
http://www.joekindkid.com/
Looking forward to Smith ...a little over a month away!
NM,
I'm glad you disagree with me but I don't think your disagreeing with my point. I too am psyched to do 'combat' with a V.6 or .11+ even if it doesn't effect my score but that's not what I was saying in the least. I was trying to draw parallels between the negative effects a point valuation system can have on activities (such as climbing) that can influence climbers to climb something they normally wouldn't climb just to get the points assigned to it via a website that claims to categorize and rank achievements that are totally un-categorizable and un-rankable. Points say nothing about the hours, days, weeks, months that a climber has poured into the culminating efforts of a send, but they can detract from a climbers experience by influencing him/her to go after the 'easy stuff' or claim the high end of a grade. I've gotten a bit off responding to your post here, let me say this: I'm not accusing anyone of being 'less psyched' to climb a .11d over a .12d, let alone a .10a over an .11a, what I was trying to insinuate is that 8a has the potential to create a mentality that circulates around filling a quota, so to speak. Once that quota is filled (i.e. establishing a strong top ten for the year) there can be a sense of relaxed enthusiasm when it comes to trying harder and harder routes/boulders until next year when the points from those sends will perpetuate a growing trend, instead of maintaining a growing sense of enthusiasm towards climbing harder and harder regardless of what you have climbed recently in the past. I have definitely fallen under such a spell, this past year was an explosive one for me in the bouldering arena. Yet, once I started to get a bunch of highly graded climbs under my belt, I had a sense of 'saving' climbs for next year instead of actively pursuing them right now. Once I realized this attitude was deleterious to my climbing psyche I had a chance to re-evaluate why it was I started climbing and got psyched about climbing in the first place. In any event, I'm certainly not suggesting that everyone associated with 8a.nu only climbs routes/boulders that help their score/ranking, if that were the case the crags would be a very lonely venue. I'm simply suggesting that point valuation systems offer up an objective yard stick on which to measure personal achievements that are undeniably subjective, and this way of measuring and marginalizing the beautiful climbs that absolutely defy point assignments can start to mess with a climbers mind. That is all. But we all know NM, that you are above this and will never lose your psych and that is why I like climbing with you, Dom, Laura, Jimmy, Lisa, Jeremy, Mika, Jesse, Al, Evan, Andrew, Daniel, Jacob, Scott, Wayne, Travis, Eligh, and anybody and everybody who has inspired me in some way to just climb.
Glad you guys enjoyed my post. I thought this might get a good response. I definately know what you mean about 8a affecting your psyche to do certain climbs and when you do them Micah. I know I definatelly had some top-10 syndrome towards the end of the year last year when it came to my routes.
Nick I feel what your saying about being psyched to do a climb no matter what the grade. I think you more than most climbers are able to put your scorecard in perspective when it comes to climbing, and just enjoy the moment. I wish I had the same values as you when it comes to this, but I feel my competative side takes over my feelings sometimes. This year I want to try to put less emphasis on doing routes for the score, and enjoy just being outside with my friends on whatever climb looks like the most fun to climb. I know my favourite memories are not just the ones when I send a climb thats harder than anything I've done before, but when I'm out with friends and everyone is psyched and having a great time. When those moments come together, that is what I love about climbing!
I'm gonna' have to disagree with you Dom. After a lot of thought I have become enlightened about the whole 'points' thing. 8a is right, the only reason we should climb anything is to get as many points as possible and to show off for our friends. In fact, we should all strategically climb routes and boulders that will only count towards our score and make sure to spread them out over the course of a year so that when a route/boulder falls off the scorecard, it's place and point value is automatically replaced by a route/boulder we have waiting so it won't effect our ranking or score. Plus, we should always take the high end of the grade no matter what it felt like or what the consensus is, because in the end we have to look like total bad ass climbers all the time. Without points assigned to each and every number grade for a climb I would have no clue as to my self value, progression, or how hard or psyched I should get before attempting said climb. I don't see climbs as beautiful pieces of rock that we have the privilege of climbing on, instead all I see when I go to a crag is red/yellow/black boxes and my name in blue getting higher and higher on the first page of the 8a.nu rankings. If I wanted to hang out with my friends I would just go to a bar, sheesh.
8a.nu ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Its a cool website that makes climbing outside into another comp for me to keep me physced! If you hatin' the game don't play...
Excellent points, I agree with most all of them. I just wish my chart had the steady increases like yours instead of the wild peaks and valley!
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